Comments on: Elections this autumn for Catalonia http://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/ A blog from Barcelona, Catalonia, about politics, society and culture Mon, 20 May 2013 17:28:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Ernesthttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-164127 Ernest Sun, 30 Sep 2012 22:36:37 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-164127 The Spanish already rejected a referendum proposal a few years ago, remember the Ibarretxe plan? But the tables have turned a little bit since then. First, Spain is a now wrecked country. They have a huge economic problem and depend on foreign aid to keep going and avoid civil unrest. This means they are under surveillance from major powers and their options are seriously limited. Second, Mr. Mas must and will seek international support. He should talk with the EU, the USA and probably the Chinese too, and explain exactly the situation to them, that he's going to call a referendum for independence, and so on. If he's determined, which I think he is, there is no way the Spanish can stop him. There are many ways to hold a referendum. An ordinary election can turn into a de facto referendum. They can't make democracy illegal, can they? I agree, it's going to be interesting. Exciting times await us. The Spanish already rejected a referendum proposal a few years ago, remember the Ibarretxe plan? But the tables have turned a little bit since then. First, Spain is a now wrecked country. They have a huge economic problem and depend on foreign aid to keep going and avoid civil unrest. This means they are under surveillance from major powers and their options are seriously limited. Second, Mr. Mas must and will seek international support. He should talk with the EU, the USA and probably the Chinese too, and explain exactly the situation to them, that he's going to call a referendum for independence, and so on. If he's determined, which I think he is, there is no way the Spanish can stop him. There are many ways to hold a referendum. An ordinary election can turn into a de facto referendum. They can't make democracy illegal, can they? I agree, it's going to be interesting. Exciting times await us.

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]]> By: Simon Harrishttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-164124 Simon Harris Sun, 30 Sep 2012 22:00:24 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-164124 So November 25 is the date for the elections but the real question is what happens next. La Vanguatdia published the results of a survey today that suggested that the pro-independence parties would win 95 out of 135 seats in the Catalan Parliament. However, more importantly 84% of Catalans are in favour of a referendum on the issue of independence. If CiU win the election, Artur Mas is duty bound to convoke the referendum but following Soraya Saez de Santamaria's veiled threats the other night about the Madrid Government being willing to take action to protect the constitution, the road ahead is ceetainly not going to be easy. So November 25 is the date for the elections but the real question is what happens next.

La Vanguatdia published the results of a survey today that suggested that the pro-independence parties would win 95 out of 135 seats in the Catalan Parliament.

However, more importantly 84% of Catalans are in favour of a referendum on the issue of independence.

If CiU win the election, Artur Mas is duty bound to convoke the referendum but following Soraya Saez de Santamaria's veiled threats the other night about the Madrid Government being willing to take action to protect the constitution, the road ahead is ceetainly not going to be easy.

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]]> By: Tomhttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162996 Tom Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:26:12 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162996 Elections confirmed for November 25. Elections confirmed for November 25.

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]]> By: Murphhttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162482 Murph Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:09:30 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162482 Seems very likely that there will be early elections. I hope for transparency and realistic ideas when the various parties come to publish their platforms and debate them. More than that I wouldn't dare to hope right now. Seems very likely that there will be early elections. I hope for transparency and realistic ideas when the various parties come to publish their platforms and debate them. More than that I wouldn't dare to hope right now.

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]]> By: Candidehttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162401 Candide Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:42:32 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162401 Sorry, the answer to what question? Sorry, the answer to what question?

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]]> By: Ernesthttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162400 Ernest Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:46:19 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162400 There's no need to form a coalition, as long as all parties state their position on the independence issue. As a supporter of independence not involved in politics, I think we need to do a lot planning and start seeking international support (which will be mild, at best) starting with the USA. The elections are the least of my concerns. There's no need to form a coalition, as long as all parties state their position on the independence issue. As a supporter of independence not involved in politics, I think we need to do a lot planning and start seeking international support (which will be mild, at best) starting with the USA. The elections are the least of my concerns.

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]]> By: Ernesthttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162399 Ernest Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:40:24 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162399 sorry ...if you can... should read ...if you can't... sorry …if you can… should read …if you can't…

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]]> By: Ernesthttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162398 Ernest Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:39:24 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162398 Candide, if you can figure out the answer by yourslef, I suggest that you ask any inhabitant of a former Spanish colony (they're not in short supply) what they have gained with independence. Candide, if you can figure out the answer by yourslef, I suggest that you ask any inhabitant of a former Spanish colony (they're not in short supply) what they have gained with independence.

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]]> By: Tomhttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162370 Tom Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:45:26 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162370 I've heard November 25 for the elections. We'll have to see. As to what happens to Spain: Spain, and Euskadi and Catalonia are going to have to learn to live happily together as trading partners on the Iberian peninsular and in the European system. I believe that this is possible. But it will be difficult to achieve with anything resembling the current national government. I've heard November 25 for the elections. We'll have to see.

As to what happens to Spain: Spain, and Euskadi and Catalonia are going to have to learn to live happily together as trading partners on the Iberian peninsular and in the European system. I believe that this is possible. But it will be difficult to achieve with anything resembling the current national government.

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]]> By: Candidehttp://www.thebadrash.com/2012/09/19/elections-this-autumn-for-catalonia/#comment-162365 Candide Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:54:37 +0000 http://www.thebadrash.com/?p=1987#comment-162365 Will there be early elections? Will there be a clear separatist block? Will it finally have agreed on such essentials as the borders of the state it envisages and the guarantees of minority rights it would offer? And, very importantly, will the people be duly informed about this and all other significant aspects? We'll see soon. Maybe. It better and I very much doubt so are my answers. Nevertheless, the international factor would force this still-hypothetical Catalan state to be far different from what current local ideology demands. Within a few years, it would be a democratic state that allows for Spanish to be used also in public education, and a peaceful state, within the borders of the present-day Spanish Autonomous Community, that has no claims over any other territories. It would have a huge problem of corruption, because that's already there, and it would have to deal with it. The real question is what happens to Spain. If Catalonia goes, so will the Basque country. That very well might throw Spain into turmoil first, and extremism thereafter. Not to speak of the poverty which usually accompanies these phenomena, in the medium run. So the question might have to be what would be gained from all this? Will there be early elections? Will there be a clear separatist block? Will it finally have agreed on such essentials as the borders of the state it envisages and the guarantees of minority rights it would offer? And, very importantly, will the people be duly informed about this and all other significant aspects?

We'll see soon. Maybe. It better and I very much doubt so are my answers.

Nevertheless, the international factor would force this still-hypothetical Catalan state to be far different from what current local ideology demands. Within a few years, it would be a democratic state that allows for Spanish to be used also in public education, and a peaceful state, within the borders of the present-day Spanish Autonomous Community, that has no claims over any other territories.

It would have a huge problem of corruption, because that's already there, and it would have to deal with it.

The real question is what happens to Spain. If Catalonia goes, so will the Basque country. That very well might throw Spain into turmoil first, and extremism thereafter. Not to speak of the poverty which usually accompanies these phenomena, in the medium run.

So the question might have to be what would be gained from all this?

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